Transcript: Episode 029 | Neptune Washing Over All, and the US Pluto Return
June 8, 2020
Jen: Welcome to the Big Sky Astrology podcast, with April Elliott Kent and me, producer and cohost Jen Braun. Hey friends, Jen here. Today is June 8th, 2020. I’m coming to you from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Over there in San Diego is my dear friend, astrologer April Elliott Kent. Good morning, April. Oh, it’s afternoon for us, isn’t it?
April: Well, it’s afternoon for you. It’s morning for me. And it’s probably the middle of the night for some of the people that are listening to this. So…
Jen: True. That’s true.
April: How you doing over there, my pal?
Jen: Well, yes, it’s been quite a week in Minneapolis. Today in real time, just so all of you know, it’s June 1st. And, as most of you know, George Floyd died here one week ago today. It’s horrible. I don’t know what to say about it. The reality is it’s been happening over and over, for what seems like forever and ever. And 400 years of systemic racism and systemic inequality… it all underlies what’s happening, and things have to change. To my white peers out there, I would say we also finally really need to open our ears and listen to the voices of black people and indigenous people and people of color. And it’s important to give our time and our money and our support to the causes that lift these communities up right now. It’s felt surreal here in Minneapolis. There’s a lot of grief, a lot of understandable anger… that’s rippling out across the nation, around the world, to other cities. But the thing is, this didn’t start last week, right? It didn’t start when George Floyd died.
April: Right. Yeah. It’s part of a long story. It’s an installment in a very long story. And the timing is such that, of course, things are… everybody has been more on edge than usual.
Jen: Understandably.
April: Yes. You know, I really want to emphasize what you said when you said we have to listen. And I wrote about that a little bit in my column this week. We’ve really fallen into this pattern, I think, as a people, of not really listening. Of feeling as if conversation is an opportunity to make our point and that it’s important that we feel we’re right about things. And it goes back to what we were talking about in the last episode when we were talking about the Nodes, and the South Node moving into Sagittarius… that we’re going to be called over the next two years to let go of that sense that “we know everything that’s right.” We need to stand with our brothers and sisters that, as you said, have had a history of not being treated well. And one of the most powerful things that I have to offer, probably, is to just listen. To sit with it and not take it personally and not take it as an indictment of me to hear people talk about their anger and their powerlessness and their rage.
Jen: Yes.
April: There’s so few people that we speak with that we feel, we can say something and you can tell they’re really there with you, they’re really listening. And they’re letting it seep in and they’re not feeling they have to fix it and they’re not feeling that they have to make their point. They’re just letting you have your say.
Jen: Yes. Good point.
April: Thank you.
Jen: So, like I said last week, April and I want you to know that we stand with those calling for justice and for change. And we’ll say it again, “Black Lives Matter.” I think it’s important to say that right now.
April: I’m really glad that you put that introduction into our last episode. Because we were getting ready to publish it at the end of this last weekend, when things had really gotten to a fever pitch. And we both felt a little bit weird about it, just going out the way it was. We were in a pretty peppy mood that morning when we recorded.
Jen: Yes.
April: Tonally, it felt very off. What are the words I’m looking for?
Jen: It was a peppy, happy episode.
April: Yes, it was.
Jen: And that wasn’t how, I think, either you or I felt right at that moment when it was being published. And with all of the grief and all of the anger that’s been happening over the last week… it felt like I needed to say something. I couldn’t just let that episode go out into the world without saying something.
April: Yes. Well, I’m glad you did. And it was well said.
Jen: Thank you, my friend.
April: And I’m glad you’re okay. I know you’re a little low on sleep and probably feeling a little frayed around the edges today.
Jen: Other people have it worse.
April: Of course they do. Yes. But that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been hard for you as well. So, as my friend, I just want to give you a little virtual hug there.
Jen: Thanks April.
April: Yes.
Jen: On an astrological note, I thought it was interesting – again, in real time, it’s June 1st for us and April’s newsletter went out this morning – that you were talking about the Pluto return. The United States’ Pluto return. And I thought it was interesting that you mentioned that. Because I had actually wondered about, I don’t know… on an astrological note, the destruction in Minneapolis is overwhelming and there’s so much to rebuild structurally and systemically. But I have hope that the coming Jupiter/Saturn conjunction in December in Aquarius will help us have a progressive vision of the collective. A way that we can move forward. And I was thinking about the Pluto return of the United States. It’s coming up in 2022. But I was wondering if we were feeling it now?
April: Well, what do you think?
Jen: I think we are.
April: I mean, pretty obviously. These big transits like this… if you have say, let’s say you have a Neptune square or a Pluto square in your chart…
Jen: The outer planets.
April: Yes. See how long it takes to look perfect. To come to conclusion. But you’re definitely feeling it in advance. It’s like the analogy I’ve often used is: If you hear a pack of elephants coming towards you, you’re going to hear them when they’re quite a ways away. And the ground’s going to be shaking already.
Jen: Right.
April: Because big change doesn’t sneak in, in the middle of the night. It’s a process. And we’re in a process in the United States. Our country is in a process. And it’s a question of what it’s going to look like. We’re rebirthing this country with a Pluto return.
Jen: This country was founded on killing and moving out the indigenous population. And it was founded on the backs of black people.
April: Yes. And something that’s not begun in the right way is never going to be right. But I do believe that the possibility – the opportunity, the opening – with the Pluto return for the United States is to take it back down to the bare bones. And as you say, with the Jupiter/Saturn at zero degrees of Aquarius. Of course now, what do we want to do moving forward? Because, again, it goes back to thing of the Jupiter/Saturn conjunctions occurring in earth signs for 200 years… and saying, “That that was the basis for our society. That’s how we kept track of progress was by what we were creating. And on a physical level, the resources that we had to do that.” And the hope, I think, with Jupiter and Saturn now coming together in Aquarius – and then for the next couple of hundred years – in air signs says, “It’s less about that, and more about what we’re going to create in terms of our imagination and our spirit and the ideas that take us forward.”
Jen: Yes.
April: So there’s always cause to be positive when you have a Sagittarius ascendant. And indeed, this country has a Sagittarius ascendant.
Jen: Like my lovely cohost…
April: Yes. So I always have to think that there is a reason for it, but it has been a very overwhelming couple of weeks. And I just really want to acknowledge that for people. Because no sooner did we start to maybe see a little peak of a light at the end of the tunnel with the pandemic and the lockdown… but that all of this is tearing us even further apart. It’s hard all over the world and it feels particularly difficult right now in our country.
Jen: Yes.
April: So we’re sending love to everybody out there and thank you for sharing some of your time with us. And I’ve always felt with my readers that I feel always safe to say anything to them that I feel is in my heart and that I want to say. And, I think we kind of feel that way on the podcast as well, that we can talk about what we’re thinking and what we’re feeling. And we’re sending a lot of love out to all of you.
Jen: We are indeed. And it occurs to me April, that maybe we should quickly explain what a Pluto return is.
April: Oh, you think?
Jen: I was wearing my complete astrology hat instead of my “what might new people be thinking” hat.
April: Well, we have done a couple of episodes where we talked about return charts. We had an episode where he talked about Saturn returns. And did we do an episode on solar returns?
Jen: Lunar returns.
April: Okay. Lunar returns.
Jen: Yes.
April: So the idea of a return is just that a planet returns to the same point that it was at a given time. So say, at your birth. Pluto has a cycle of 246 years. None us are going to experience a personal Pluto return, but a country can.
Jen: Right.
April: So Pluto is coming back to the same position it was in at the time that the United States was born as an independent country. And so it means that we are going through a Plutonian process of rebirth, of transformation, of taking things down to the studs and taking away anything that’s false and that’s not serving us… so that we can build something new as a country and move forward.
Jen: And in its highest energy, a Pluto transformation is about transformation for the highest purpose of all beings everywhere.
April: Yeah. I mean… So while I’m a positive person, I’m also a realistic person. My vision of Pluto – having gone through a lot of Pluto transits in my life – is Pluto is not out to make me necessarily into anything. And he’s not a real loving presence. However, Pluto is helpful in that he takes away whatever isn’t structurally sound. You know?
Jen: Okay.
April: So if you’re getting a roof replaced in your house, it’s a good process to take away rotted wood.
Jen: Look at that folks, April just pulled a real-life example.
April: I did.
Jen: I’m getting a new roof on my house. Yes.
April: You are. And we see people in our neighborhood that will buy an old house and just completely gut it and start over. And I say, “Yes, they liked everything about that house except the inside and the outside.” And they just completely start over. So that is one example of a Pluto process. It’s just taking it all apart, see what you’ve got and see what is structurally sound.
A metaphor I always like for Pluto is: the guy that comes around and pokes around in your eaves outside the house, to see if there’s termite damage and see where the wood is rotted or soft and replace it. Pluto takes away the things in us that are rotted and soft. And so, what you get at the end of it is something that may be a shadow of its former self, but everything that’s there you can count on. It’s authentic. It’s part of what you really are.
Jen: Sure.
April: So we all talk about transformation and none of us wants to go through what it takes to get there, because that stuff’s scary and it’s painful. And in the case of a roof, it’s expensive.
Jen: Indeed.
April: So, nobody wants to go through this. And I never want to make Pluto sound like our fairy godfather or something, he totally is not. But there is a process there that we have to respect.
Jen: Right.
April: And the old adage that things get worse before they get better is very true of Pluto transits. Because you’re taking out what is not structurally sound and starting over.
Jen: Yes.
April: Well. Should we talk about what’s happening this week?
Jen: I think we should.
April: To whoever’s left here…
Jen: If anybody is still left, after our mini… what?
April: Yes.
Jen: Sometimes we just have to speak our mind.
April: Gosh. Well, we do. Well, we begin at a very exciting point this week, Jen. You know what it is.
Jen: Moonwatch. I’m not singing this week, April, but I would like you to.
April: Oh, Jen! Moonwatch. I know our friend Bernard was on our webinar the other day. And he said, “Oh, I expect to hear the Moonwatch theme.” So of course, I obligingly sang it for him. Because we have to. But anyway, you should play our Moonwatch theme.
Jen: Okay.
April: Play it.
April: I can still get a giggle out of you after this long, difficult week.
Jen: What happens is I actually picture it in my mind.
April: I know. I do, too!
Jen: Because as April and I sit here talking, of course we can’t really hear it…
April: No…
Jen: …I add that later. The magic of podcast editing.
April: We hear it in our hearts, Jen.
Jen: And speaking of magic…
April: Yes, magic. Well, this week we have a Last Quarter Moon on June 12th at 11:23 PM Pacific Time, which means it’s June 13th virtually everywhere else.
Jen: Right on. For the rest of the world.
April: And it is really quite the Last Quarter Moon. I was talking to you before we started recording about the chart for this. And it’s quite dramatic. The Moon and Neptune and Mars are all together in Pisces within about a degree of one another. And all of them are square the Sun in Gemini.
Jen: So what does that mean?
April: Well, I’m taking a little bit of the tone of the Last Quarter Moon from the Sabian symbol for the Moon.
Jen: Which is what?
April: Which is 23 Pisces, “Spiritist Phenomenon.” I think in the modern versions of it, they talk about a séance or something. So it goes back to one of the symbols we talked about last week that had to do with telepathy and communicating telepathically. There is a sort of a magical element to this indeed. And then the Sun is on 23 Gemini, which is “Three Fledglings In A Nest High In A Tree.”
Jen: Nice.
April: It is definitely spring around here in San Diego and the birds are going crazy. And we have a little bird’s nest in our bougainvillea tree out in the driveway.
Jen: Cute.
April: And we could only tell because we would see a sentry that was hanging out on the roof next door, just keeping an eye out and keeping the crows away from it. So that’s what came to mind when I was thinking of that symbol and thinking, “Well, it is a symbol of safety, because the nest is high up in the tree. Three little fledgling. So we’re not alone. There’s company there.”
Jen: Oh, nice.
April: All of it then square, all of that stuff in Pisces. It does not look like an easy and restful chart. I will just say that. But Mars and Neptune and the Moon together in Pisces are still sort of bringing home this message of listening, of appreciating people’s differences. And in all ways, it’s not just about the demonstrations and riots and things. It’s still coming back to the pandemic and people’s different ideas about that and how serious it is and what should be done and what shouldn’t be done, and all of the rest of it.
Jen: Yes.
April: So many disagreements. And I guess I just really wanted to take this back to what we first said, which was: Sit with each other, listen to each other and try to be respectful of different opinions. And, I don’t know…
Jen: And fledglings are still learning, which is very Gemini.
April: Yes, definitely.
Jen: And that’s where the North Node is right now. Which is where our path is pointed collectively.
April: That is a very good point, Jen. Yes.
Jen:
April: I don’t know…
Jen: Is it a good point? I don’t know. She’s got her head on her hand…
April: No, I’m just having such a hard time. I’ve been writing about so much of this stuff, thinking about so much of it. I feel like I keep saying the same things over and over again. But the symbolism is concentrated in just a couple of signs, and really, messages are being hammered home.
Jen: Yes.
April: And that’s kind of how I’m feeling about this Last Quarter Moon as well. The Last Quarter Moon always is the time in the lunar cycle when we are asked to take stock and really figure out how we got to where we are. And as I pointed out last time we had a Last Quarter Moon: Not just how we got to where we are in the last month, in the last lunar cycle, but in general in our own lives as a society.
Jen: And even though we don’t have an eclipse this week, we are still in the eclipse portal.
April: Boy, are we ever. Yes. We’ve got a six-week period of eclipse/eclipse/eclipse.
Jen: Right.
April: Yes. So be sensitive, be tender, be kind to one another, I think. And nurture new ideas, I suppose. Three fledglings up high in the tree, up in our minds, in Gemini.
Jen: Yes.
April: At the same time, let’s take a little closer look at the Sun squaring Neptune. And Mars in a conjunction with Neptune.
Jen: Okay.
April: The Sun makes a square to Neptune on June 11th at 2:37 AM here Pacific Time. And we do get a square from the Sun to Neptune twice a year. So it’s not the rarest of things. We experience it, really, for just a couple of days. And if you want to hear a little bit about the Sabian symbols for the Sun and Neptune at this square, go back to Episode 23, “Talkin’ Taurus And The Void (Of Course!) Moon.” Because we had these symbols very prominent at that time… it was the Sun and Venus, was it?
Jen: It was Venus and Neptune. Venus was where the Sun is this week in Gemini. And Neptune was where Mars now sits in Pisces.
April: Yes. And we talked about those at the time and just said, one of them has to do with a labor demonstration. So of course the demonstration part of that, probably, is speaking for itself at this point.
Jen: Yes.
April: And then the other one was, “A little white lamb, a child and a Chinese servant.” And in both of those symbols taken together, I think we were looking at it and saying, “Okay, are our relationships equitable?” Because it was Venus at that time. But to get a little more insight on those symbols, that’s a good episode for that. We won’t really go too much into it today.
But the thing that came to mind for me is that the Sun and Neptune – coming together – can work in one of two ways. And one is that: Neptune being very strong in its own sign of Pisces is like the water that can overwhelm the Sun’s fire. And this can be a time of year where our energy is a little bit low. But it can also be the Sun evaporating water. And that creates a kind of a fog. And I got thinking about it and I thought, ” Well, what happens for somebody who is in a boat out on the water and it’s suddenly very foggy? And what’s the advice for navigating your way through that?
So some of the tips I saw were, “Slow down.” So you can hear sounds forward and to the side. And also, “Keep your speed slow for evasive maneuvers,” which is always a Pisces thing for me. So I think one thing I’m thinking about for this week, especially between like June 10th through the 12th is: We’re navigating in the fog. So slow down a little bit. Don’t jump to conclusions. Try to hear. You know, you’re navigating through sound. And again, it goes back to that thing of listening and paying attention to what is being said, and what’s around you.
Jen: Way to bring it back.
April: Yes. And keep going slow because you don’t know what’s going to come out of nowhere. And that seems like a good way to approach this.
I don’t know, I was born with the Sun square Neptune. I’ve probably talked about that before. And what’s so difficult about it is – especially when you’re younger – you often do feel that you’re in a fog. You’re trying so hard to figure out who you are and it’s not clear.
Jen: That makes sense. Because the Sun’s about identity, and Neptune is about blurring the boundaries and fogginess.
April: Yes. I can imagine a lot of us might be feeling a bit of that right now. And that we’re identifying with our Gemini self, which is just kind of very detached and just gathering information and processing it mentally, which is fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. But it’s at odds with these Pisces qualities, which are about empathy and really being there and being inside of something – instead of trying to figure it out intellectually – of just letting yourself feel it and experience it and navigate through the fog. Slow down, listen, go slow.
Jen: Okay. Neptune’s very strong in Pisces. Does it have any advantage over the Sun?
April: It always does because it moves slower.
Jen: Yes. Okay.
April: And we underestimate Neptune at our peril. We spend a lot of time worrying about Saturn and Pluto, but Neptune is no slouch. The water always gets the last word. It’ll wear down anything. The Rock of Gibraltar will one day be gone because of water.
Jen: Yes.
April: It wears you down gradually.
Jen: The Grand Canyon.
April: Yes. But this is a quick transit. And this is the Sun coming to Neptune. And the Sun will just skip along for a couple of days and create a little bit of fog.
Jen: Yes. And thank you for reminding us that when the Sun comes to Neptune, instead of the opposite, it’s a quicker transit, and it’s not quite as intense.
April: Yes. If transiting Neptune is making an aspect to the Sun in your birth chart… If you have the Sun in Gemini, you can have Neptune in aspect to that. And that takes years to complete. And it’s a very long process of redefining who you are to yourself. But now, this is much quicker.
Jen: Very good.
April: Alright. So we have Mars in a conjunction with Neptune on June 13th at 7:13 AM Pacific Time. And the phrase that came to mind for me with this is the “Fog Of War.” Once a battle begins, there’s all kinds of information that can become really confusing and really distorted. And it’s like battling an invisible enemy.
Jen: Battling the fog. Because Mars is the planet of action and…
April: …and a battle, and of actually fighting.
Jen: Yes.
April: And Neptune is an obscuring influence. So this will be… surprise attacks are of the nature of Neptune, for instance. Or, with Neptune, it’s also about relying on instinct. And when you’re in the heart of some kind of battle, there is the moment where you have to rely on your instincts to be guided.
Jen: That’s interesting because the Sabian symbol that you talked about for Moonwatch was “Spiritist Phenomena.” And it’s really about going beyond the five senses.
April: Yes, definitely. And all of this Pisces energy is connecting to Mars and Neptune and the Moon this week.
Jen: And this begins a two-year cycle with Mars and Neptune. Just to remind folks: In astrology, things always go in cycles. And so, in about six months or so, we’ll have the opening square.
April: Right. And that is when the fog lifts for a moment. And suddenly we say, “Oh, I’m in a different battle than I thought I was.” Or, “Oh, I’m battling something different than I thought I was.” Or the fog just lifts for a moment, and we get some clarity about what’s going on. But at the time of the conjunction, we’re just in it. We’re just in the pea-soup fog and not really sure what’s going on. The feeling I had over the weekend washing over me was just, “Everybody is fighting with everybody,” is what it felt like.
Jen: And you just used the phrase “washing over.”
April: Right.
Jen: That’s Neptune.
April: I see what you did there.
Jen: Hey…
April: Yes. So it’s just a very Neptunian week, is what we’re trying to say. And it is a time of rest and repose and assimilating a lot of thoughts and feelings and ideas about things.
Jen: Yes.
April: We’re also coming up to another eclipse. We had one last week. And next week we’ll be talking about this blockbuster of a solar eclipse that we have at 0° of Cancer on the day of the summer solstice in the Northern hemisphere. The winter solstice of course, in Southern hemisphere. So that’s a big one. And those who were in on my webinar the other day, heard me talk quite a lot about that particular chart. Really, the first two eclipses of the season were very powerful. A whole lot of really tense aspects in them. So we’ll go into that in some detail next week.
Jen: Great.
April: Okay. Well, that’s everything we have on the show sheet. Have we done it?
Jen: Ba-dum-bop!
April: That means we’ve done it, I think, in Jen-speak!
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Jen: This week, I’m actually going to give a shout out to a great organization in Minnesota called Tubman, named after Harriet Tubman. They offer safety, hope and healing to people in the Twin Cities. They offer safe shelter and housing, mental and chemical health services, legal services, and youth services. It’s a hard time in the Twin Cities area, and if you’d like to toss any extra dollars their way, you can find them at www.tubman.org, and you can read more about them there.
April: Excellent. Thank you, Jen.
Jen: Yes.
April: Well, join us again bright and early next Monday. And until then, keep your feet on the ground…
Jen: …and your eyes on the stars.
Thank you for listening. To learn more about April Elliott Kent, please check out her website, www.BigSkyAstrology.com, where you can sign up for her newsletter, read her thought-provoking weekly essays, purchase her books, sign up for a personal astrology reading, and more.
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