
TRANSCRIPT EPISODE 142 | Podathon Day #4: Moon Mates! with Margaret Gray (9.8.22)
Listen and read show notes here

It’s Podathon week on The Big Sky Astrology Podcast. And for five big days in a row, we are bringing you special episodes that put the fun in fundraising, including the week’s planetary news, a closer look at the Moon, and five special guest astrologers, plus your chance to win prizes, people, so many prizes! And now, here’s your host, Astrology and Author, April Elliott Kent.
April: Hello, invisible friend, April here. And the date today is September 8th, 2022. Welcome to Episode 142 of The Big Sky Astrology Podcast – And to day four of The Third Annual Big Sky Astrology Podcast Podathon! This is the week each year when I bring you five daily episodes, complete this year with five very special guests and with an opportunity to win prizes. And not coincidentally, it’s when I make my appeal for contributions, which help me cover the cost of producing the podcast.
Let me begin by taking a moment to say thank you to all of you who have helped support the show over the past year with your donations, with your reviews and ratings, and just with your kind emails. I absolutely couldn’t make this podcast without you, and I truly appreciate your support. You know, when the format of the show changed at the beginning of this year, I wasn’t sure how many listeners would still want to stick around. I’m really happy and gratified to say that the show has kept growing, and I’m beyond happy to know that many of you are listening. So thank you so much for that.
Drawing for prizes
And because this podcast is audience funded, of course, I hope to continue to earn that support this year as well. To encourage your contributions, here are this year’s fantastic giveaways. First, everyone who donates $25 or more, as well as my ongoing monthly PodPal contributors, will be entered in a drawing for a chance to win one of these prizes. One grand prize winner will win a 90-minute reading with me. Another lucky listener will win a 60-minute personal astrology reading with me. Another lucky donor will win free enrollment in one of my upcoming astrology courses. My Intermediate class will begin on September 24th and my Advanced class on Progressions and Transits will begin again in February, 2023. And, one more donor will receive a beautiful astrology poster donated by Patrick Blasa of Tha Elegant Universe. It is a beautiful poster with many keywords and concepts about astrology. It is really beautiful. These are currently unavailable from his website, but we have an extra one that he donated last year. So, one lucky donor is going to get that.
Now, to be entered in the drawing, you must make your donation of $25 or more no later than Monday, Sep. 12, 2022 at 11:59 pm Pacific Time.
“But April…” you say, “My power bill has doubled. I had to take out a mortgage to fill my gas tank. I can’t possibly contribute that much!” Well, I’m also inviting donors of only $10 or more to receive my special bonus episodes for the Equinoxes and Solstices. My September Equinox episode will be released on September 22nd, and it will give you a comprehensive look ahead at the upcoming three months.
I also want to say, I know that not everyone can contribute financially at any level. I completely understand! If you like the show and want to help support it, here are a few easy, free ways you can do that. First of all, if you like the show, please do subscribe or follow The Big Sky Astrology Podcast on your app of choice. This is the very best way you can support the show and help it get seen by other listeners. You could also leave a five-star rating or write a nice review either on Apple Podcasts or any of the other platforms that allow comments. If you have a question about astrology, send it to me; as you know, I love to answer listener questions at the end of my regular episodes. You can leave a voicemail of one minute or less with your question at speakpipe.com/bigskyastrologypodcast, or just send me an email april@bigskyastrology.com and be sure to put “Podcast Question”, in the subject line. And finally, you can just recommend the show to an astrology loving friend. All of your support is warmly appreciated.
And now for today’s show.
Today’s Moon
As long time listeners know, Podathon is the week when I can really give the Moon a little extra attention, because there are days when not much else is happening during the week, other than the Moon sign changes, aspects to other planets, and Void-of-Course periods. The day’s Moon sign describes the temple and pace of the day and our way of coping with things emotionally.
Today, the Moon starts off in Aquarius with a square to Uranus at 03:25 AM, and a conjunction to Saturn at 5:33 AM. Then it goes void-of-course for the entire day. It doesn’t enter Pisces until 9:42 PM.
I talked a little bit yesterday about the mood and style of the Moon in Aquarius, which is a little more dispassionate. It is however, a very strong-willed sign. And, on this day it is making difficult aspects to both of its rulers. Its traditional ruler is Saturn, and we have a conjunction from the Moon to Saturn at 5:33 AM. Aquarius is a very sociable sign, but when the Moon in that sign is connecting with Saturn, it can make us feel a little bit lonely and as if we don’t really have the time or opportunity to connect with the kinds of people we normally look to for fun and support.
As for the square to Uranus at 3:25 AM, we might initially think that that would be fine for the Moon in Aquarius; after all, Uranus is considered its modern ruler, so the sign and the planet do have certain things in common. But remember, Aquarius is a Fixed sign, and nothing in a Fixed sign really enjoys change. And that is what Uranus is asking for today from the Moon. It’s a fast aspect – remember, all of these lunar aspects go really quickly. They’re only in effect maybe for a couple of hours. And for a lot of us at least here on the west coast, we’ll be sleeping through this one, anyway. Sleep might be disrupted, something like that. But, pay close attention to what’s coming up in your dreams, especially something that’s a little startling or something that even wakes you up.
Uranus is a planet of awakening, and awakening usually is caused by or leads to change. And that is what’s going on when the Moon is squaring Uranus. So, it’s not exactly a peaceful start to the day. We start off a little bit off our game maybe and feeling a little bit like everything is on us and we don’t have the usual support that we come to expect from friends and family. So then, we have this long void-of-course day when we’re kind of sitting with that Moon-Saturn feeling.
The Moon in Aquarius is so gregarious, and its natural state is – when it feels the need for comfort or security or calming – it wants to very often reach out to its community, to its group of friends. And the Moon with Saturn says maybe those usual resources are not available today. And you have the opportunity to reexamine those patterns. Maybe you’ve gotten into a habit of over-relying on other people to the detriment of really spending time with yourself and finding what resources you have within you to cope with whatever distressing things are happening in life. It can also mean that maybe you’ve gotten into a habit of relying on people who sort of have this pattern of not showing up for you. And this might be a day where you examine how you can put better boundaries in place so that you are either not having those expectations to begin with, or if the person doesn’t come through for you, it’s not the end of the world because you’ve developed other resources within yourself. Then in the evening, the Moon goes into Pisces, and will talk more about that tomorrow.
Interview with Margaret Gray
April: As you know, this week I’ve been featuring something really new and different for the podcast. I have featured interviews with astrologers who I consider to be specialists about the Moon, to get information from them about their thoughts and the way they work with the Moon.
Today’s guest is Margaret Gray. Margaret is a consulting and teaching astrologer based in Dublin. She offers birth chart readings to clients all over the world, as well as teaching courses and webinars and speaking at international conferences. Margaret’s work is grounded in a Jungian-based psychological approach. She’s particularly interested in relationship astrology and is the co-founder of “Relationships and Astrology,” which offers a certificate course in the astrology of love and relationships.
Margaret set up and co-runs Astrology Ireland, served on the IAEA board and is a past ISAR board member. She’s also a psychotherapist and works extensively with couples. Here is our conversation.
April: Well, my dear friend, Margaret, it is so wonderful to have you here on the podcast. Thank you so much.
Margaret: Thank you so much for inviting me, April. I’m absolutely delighted to be here.
April: Well, I wanted to talk to you specifically because in this week of episodes, I’m really talking a lot about the Moon. And I thought about especially how the Moon influences our relationships with others. And I was telling you before we started recording that, it seems it’s impossible to talk about relationship without talking about the Moon, but you really are an expert in relationship astrology, so I thought you were just the right person to speak to on this topic.
So, there were many factors that an astrology compares when we are doing relationship work and each of them tells us something interesting and important. To you, what does the symbolism of the Moon say about areas of compatibility or conflict between two people, and that’s both from an astrological and a psychological point of view?
Margaret: It’s such an interesting question April, because I think often people ask about compatibility and their focus is on the Sun or their focus is on Venus and Mars in relationship astrology. And, you know, from the start of doing this work, maybe because also I work as a psychotherapist, to me, the Moon has always been crucial. In fact, the Moon and Mercury are both very, very crucial to me, because the Moon is our emotional makeup. And when, we’re in relationship with anyone, whether it’s a family member or partner or spouse, our children, our friends, we are in an emotional connection with them. There has to be that connection. And even when we’re in a work situation, we’re still connecting on an emotional basis, even though it’s kind of more hidden behind a mental kind of mercurial interaction. So to me, the Moon is absolutely critical.
And the first thing is really to be aware of our Moon, what our Moon needs individually. What suits us? What comforts us? What our emotional makeup is? How we connect with our emotions? And of course, the Moon also brings us back to basic attachment issues. So, it brings us back to those first 18 months of life, what our attachment was to our main caregiver. And those kinds of issues really need exploration. I think, certainly I find when working with couples to see what were the individuals’ experiences of attachment, and that’s very visible often in the natal chart. And although we can’t simplify to the point of saying, “Okay, if you’ve got your Moon in aspect to this, this is your attachment style.” We can deduce from the Moon and the aspects to the Moon, whether there might have been some issues around it. And it certainly opens up the floor that we can explore it with clients and give them the opportunity to look into that.
And, depending on that, then if couples in – you know, let’s use couples as an example, rather than family members, have different attachment styles, the Moon in different aspects, the Moon in different elements, then really, bridges need to be created across that. Well, the first step is really understanding what those are and then how to create a bridge across those, and similarly, of course, with family members. So, I think understanding our Moon, understanding the aspects to our Moon, understanding the element, first of all, the basic level, the element our Moon is in, the sign it’s in and the aspects it makes, is absolutely crucial to understanding our emotional makeup.
April: Can you give us some examples for each element that the Moon might be in and some of the things that you’re talking about?
Margaret: Certainly, when we’re looking at the similarities and the differences between the Moon, if we look at the Moon and fire and air, there are some distinct similarities. So, when we’re talking about compatibility, which means a lot of things to different people, but if we look at what’s easier for us to get on with, somebody who has a Moon in fire, their comfort zone is really kind of enthusiasm, a sense of the future, a sense of adventure. I often use children as examples with the Moon, because I think when we look at children, we can see the Moon in its very pure form. And if a child with a Moon and fire is distressed, often if you comfort them by saying, “Hey, remember you’ve got this big adventure next week. You’re going to your friend’s house,” that can really be of comfort. And for a child with the Moon in air, communication is incredibly comforting. So, if they come home upset from school, giving them a hug, really isn’t probably going to provide that comfort, but actually communication is what they want. So, ask them how their day went.
And for earth and water, similarly, there are similarities that a Moon in earth, particularly a child with the Moon in earth requires some kind of physical manifestation of comfort. So, that’s where maybe a hug comes in or a little gift or something that’s concrete or maybe milk and cookies or whatever. And, with the Moon in water, there’s really a requirement for emotional empathy. That’s so important. So the child needs to be asked, “How are you feeling?” And some empathy in terms of, “Oh, that’s so awful that your best friend didn’t talk to you.”
Now, although I’m using children, we can of course translate that into adults because there’s always that child part of us that then becomes adult and hides our needs so effectively, but actually underneath it all we still have those basic needs. And, if you imagine an adult with the Moon in air that needs a lot of communication and then an adult with the Moon in earth that in fact wants something tangible, so a kind of reassurance that is either physically based or reassurance that is maybe making them a nice dinner or something. And, when we’re all in good form, it’s very easy to meet other people’s needs, very easy to recognize the other person’s needs are different, but when we’re feeling upset, we tend to regress back to what our fundamental needs are. And so, it’s not always so easy to kind of translate in our head, “Well, I need a hug because I’ve got a Moon in Taurus, but my partner needs actually, communication, because they’ve got Moon in Gemini,” and that’s often where the challenges start.
And where people come to us, in my experience, I’m sure you’ll find this, and they say, “Oh, my partner doesn’t understand me.” And really what it is, is that they’re missing each other in terms of that emotional comfort. And going back a step further, if we don’t know what comforts ourselves, if we don’t know how to comfort ourself, we don’t know how to self-regulate, how to self soothe, how to self-comfort, it becomes impossible to even express to somebody else what we need or to even begin to put our needs aside even temporarily in order to be present for somebody else.
April: So that’s probably to some extent maybe where Mercury comes in, maybe making up a bit of the shortfall in that emotional understanding?
Margaret: Absolutely. Mercury is vital because Mercury’s how we communicate. If we don’t communicate what’s going on for us, the other person doesn’t know what’s happening. And I think when we’re in that lunar realm, which can often be pre-verbal, particularly for people with Moon in water and Moon in Earth, it can be really difficult to express that. And so, we have to be able to access our Mercury in order to express what our needs are, and to be able to listen to what somebody else’s needs are as well. Because, it’s also about having that Mercurial presence for somebody else.
April: We often forget that about Mercury, that it’s not just about talking, it’s about listening and then processing what we take in.
Margaret: Yes. Mercury is the translator, it’s the bridge, so it’s so vital in relationships. Because, with relationships, it’s all about creating those bridges. And I think when there are big differences in charts, then – let me take a step back. People often say, “Are we compatible?” You know, they’ll come…I’m sure they come to you with the same question, you know, is this relationship going to work? Are we compatible? And to me it’s not so much about whether there’s a compatibility. Even with the biggest difference, if you can create bridges across, and that depends also where people are at in their life, what stage of life? What developmental stage? What else is going on in their life? But that’s where Mercury comes in. It can create that bridge.
April: Right. That makes a lot of sense. Well, let’s say that we have a couple that have two very different Moon signs, let’s say Gemini, Scorpio, I’ve got a Gemini Moon, you’ve got a Scorpio Moon, but what sorts of astrological and maybe psychological tools might you offer them for working out their differences? Obviously, there are those Mercury tools, how would something like Venus and Mars maybe play into that or Saturn?
Margaret: Well, I think Saturn is a wonderful planet in relationships, and I know lots of people balk at that and say, “Oh no.” But to me, Saturn gives the resilience and the longevity. It gives us that kind of staying power and the ability to work on something. So Saturn in our chart can really help us kind of say, “Okay, what do I need to do about this? What foundations can I put in?” So, with two Moons that are quite different, I would say the first step is really understanding each other’s Moons, having a general curiosity about the other Moon. So, rather than approaching it as, like, “Oh my goodness, you are so different and that’s not okay,” it’s really being more interested and getting couples to ask each other. So, “Okay. See, your Moon is in Gemini. How is that different than mine? What do you require? And, what might be the way that you might ask for that if you require it? And, what are the ways that you take care of yourself and how am I going to know that?”
And similarly with the Moon in Scorpio, which might be a little more difficult, because it protects itself a little bit more, but for somebody to know what the defense systems are as well of the different Moons. How do the Moons protect themselves? What happens if the Moons are upset? And, Venus and Mars can come into the picture of course, because Venus is our values. And so, if we can connect on a level of valuing similar things or having similar values, that creates a lovely bridge across the charts. However, I think sometimes that creates a bridge that can go so far, but unless there is that lunar understanding…. With friendships that works, I think that’s sufficient, but when you go into the realms of intimacy, there’s got to be that lunar understanding, there’s got to be that ability to be empathic towards the other person.
April: Especially somebody you’re living with, because they really become your family. When you merge with someone on that level, when you’re in an intimate relationship, it’s not just about romance, it’s not just about physical desire, this is the person you look to to be your support system.
Margaret: And the Moon is what feels familiar to us, it’s what feels comfortable. I often say to people, “It’s where we go when we shut the door to our home.” And so, if we’re living with somebody we’re shutting the door together and then ours Moons are coming out. And if there isn’t a degree of comfort with each other, where we can truly be ourselves, that can make it really difficult to share the space. I think, looking at the aspects is very important and back to attachment theory, and back to looking at how did somebody experience their Moon when they were growing up. And whatever happened during those attachment phases, that it’s so important to remember that relationships can help us heal from those issues. And often we do get involved with people that will trigger some of those issues so that we have a chance as adults to heal what we missed in those early years. So, I think relationships can be an incredible avenue for growth and healing.
April: Absolutely. I agree with you on that. And it’s interesting to look at, in synastry, to look at aspects to each other’s Moons and especially in the way… say you have a Moon in aspect to Pluto in your birth chart, and what is it in your partner’s chart that is similar to that or echoes it or aspects it in your chart, so they’re providing a trigger or let’s say a catalyst, which sounds a little more positive to say. What is the way that you can really work with that, really go deep with it and understand it better and thereby heal it?
Margaret: I like the word catalyst. I think that’s a lovely word and I think it really describes accurately what happens. Yes.
April: Well, Margaret, when you were talking about the Moon and Mercury, it reminded me of when people talk about things like different kinds of intelligence, how do the Moon and Mercury fit into that?
Margaret: So yes, emotional intelligence is really so crucial in relationships. And astrologically, when we’re looking at emotional intelligence, we’re really talking about the Moon and Mercury working well together in the chart. And by working well together, I mean that we’ve integrated the energies of both in our chart and that there’s a comfort, there’s an ability to dance with both together and like partners in a dance that they support each other. And, that’s really pretty crucial because emotional intelligence is that ability to regulate ourselves, to be comfortable, to be aware of our emotions, to have that ability to empathize with others and to be able to communicate effectively with others. And so, that’s really, to me, a cornerstone in relationship, and a lot of the work when you kind of really synthesize it down, it boils down to working with emotional intelligence.
April: That’s a really good point. It’s like the Moon might be that part of us that intuits things as opposed to Mercury’s perception, because Mercury’s a little more aware, I think usually and intentional about it, and the Moon is just, “I’m picking this up”, and we have to sometimes find a way to step back from that, to understand what it even is that we’re picking up on. And I think in relationship sometimes, it’s very helpful because the other person almost puts up a mirror to us so that we can help it see it and perceive it. Yes. But the Moon is so unconscious so much of the time, isn’t it?
Margaret: Yes. And Mercury gives us that little breathing space. It kind of creates that space between the trigger and the reaction so that when somebody triggers that emotion and we think, “Oh!”, you know, we go into that fear, because of it’s that fear, “They don’t care about me. They don’t love me.” Mercury can come in and say, “Okay, let’s just take a step back and let’s just pause and then come in with a question or response.”
And that’s so crucial because often relationships, the other issue comes up is kind of, “I’m not understood. I’m not heard.” But actually it’s not really that somebody isn’t being heard, it’s that they’re being heard at an intellectual level, they’re not being heard at an emotional level.
April: That’s such a good point. Well, Margaret, thank you so much for being here and chatting with me today. I’ve loved our discussion. I would love to talk more with you about this. Why don’t you tell everybody what you’ve got coming up and where people can find you for more information about your work.
Margaret: Thank you April for asking me about that. There’s actually two courses coming up in October. The first one is a certificate course online, live online and recorded in Psychological Astrology, which I’m teaching with Yvonne Smith Tarnas. Again, we did it last year, so Yvonne of course is a Psychotherapist and Psychoanalyst as well as an Astrologer and I’m a Psychotherapist as well. So, we really look at how to use astrology in a very practical way to get an insight into our charts and other people’s charts.
And the other course that we’re very excited to be presenting in October is The Astrology of Love and Relationships, which again is a live online recorded course. And that’s both Yvonne and I, but also with Kay Taylor, with Rachel Lang, and with Armand Diaz. So, we’re really excited to be presenting those courses. All the information is at www.relationshipsandastrology.com.
And I’d like to just mention, we’re offering two diversity scholarships for each course, and we’re also offering a lot of discounts for members of the main astrological orgs. And don’t miss the early bird deadline either.
April: Wonderful. Well, we’ll make sure that we put links to those in the show notes for this episode. And Margaret, again, thank you so much.
Margaret: Thank you April. It’s been absolute joy. Thank you.
April: I’m so happy that I’ve had this opportunity to introduce many of you to Margaret. I’m assuming some of you will have been familiar with her and her work. She’s such a lovely, warm, thoughtful person. I enjoyed our conversation so much.
Well, that is everything that I have on the show sheet for today, so I’m going to wrap this one up! Thank you for listening to The Big Sky Astrology Podcast and for joining me for The Third Annual Podathon. This weekly podcast is audience funded and your generous donations help me keep the podcast coming to you. To donate, please go to bigskyastropod.com. You can either make a one-time donation or recurring monthly donation. Anyone who donates $10 or more will receive access to my upcoming Equinox and Solstice episodes. And if you donate $25 or more, you’ll be automatically entered in a drawing for chance to win one of these prizes. One winner will receive a beautiful astrology poster, one winner will win free enrollment in one of my upcoming courses, one extra-specially lucky winner will get a free 60-minute reading with me and one super lucky winner will get a full 90-minute reading. To be entered in the drawing, you must make your donation of $25 or more no later than Monday, Sep. 12, 2022 at 11:59 pm Pacific Time.
That’s it for today. Warm thanks to my guest, the lovely Margaret Gray, and to all of you for listening. Join me again, bright and early tomorrow morning for the final episode in this Podathon celebration, when I’ll welcome my guest, the charming Simone Butler, who will be chatting with me about the Moon and ritual. Until then, keep your feet on the ground and your eyes on the stars.
© 2022 by April Elliott Kent