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TRANSCRIPT Ep. 49 | Saturn & Pluto Leave the Station


049 | Saturn & Pluto Leave the Station

Published 9/28/2020

Read the episode’s show notes here

Jen: Welcome to the Big Sky Astrology podcast, with April Elliott Kent and me, producer and cohost Jen Braun. Hey friends, Jen here. Today is September 28th, 2020. And here of course – to ring in October with me – is my friend, astrologer April Elliott Kent. Happy harvest, April. It’s the season of the harvest.

April: It is, Jen. And happy harvest to you as well.

Jen: Thank you so much.

April: I like the idea of ringing in this season because to me, this is the most festive season of the year.

Jen: Yes.

April: I’m not a huge Christmas person. And I kind of like New Year’s, but that’s because new calendars, which is always really exciting.

Jen: New calendars are exciting.

April: Yes, but I love autumn. I mean Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday. I have a lot of time for Halloween. That’s fun. And this is a good time of year. So let’s ring it in indeed.

Jen: I agree100%.

April: One ringy dingy, two ringy dingy…

April: We’re old, yes.

Jen: Nice.

April: There we go. Well, you mentioned the Harvest Moon?

Jen: I did. Yes. Tell us about the Harvest Moon.

April: Well, as we will explore more in our Moonwatch segment, which I know is hotly anticipated by our listeners, this Full Moon is a Harvest Moon, and the Harvest Moon is the name that’s given to the Full Moon that’s nearest the Equinox. And it is harvest time. It’s the harvest season and my fantasy always about the Harvest Moon, that Full Moon, is that you’d be trying to get in the very last of the crops, and you would work into the evening because you have this big Moon…

Jen: Oh, that’s a lovely image.

April: …that could give you a little more light time at the end of your work day.

Jen: I like that.

April: Yes. It’s a nice Moon. And there isn’t a lot more to say about the Harvest Moon than that. I always saw it on my calendar and had that little fantasy. And I couldn’t find any more than that, that it’s just the Full Moon closest to the Equinox.

Jen: Well, I’m sure everybody appreciates that piece of information.

April: It’s the very least I could do. Literally, the very least I could do.

April: And when the time is right, we’ll talk about the Blue Moon because that’s something people always want to know about too. But for now…

Jen: Okay…

April: Yes. So, here we are in October already.

Jen: Yes. Should we get into the week’s show sheet or do you want to say anything else about October?

April: I have literally nothing else to say except that it’s my favorite month.

Jen: It’s my favorite month too.

April: I’m happy to be here.

Jen: Me too.

April: I’m very happy to be here with you.

Jen: Absolutely.

April: Well, the first stop on the show sheet this week is a nice aspect for a change. Venus Trine Mars on September 28th at 06:02 PM Pacific Time.

Jen: And what a shocker, we’re not talking about Mercury right off the bat.

April: I know. In fact, I don’t think we have anything Mercurial on the show sheet.

Jen: I don’t think we do either, come to think of it. But, there; we just mentioned him. So, he can feel the pat on the head there.

April: He has to feel recognized. He spends so much time in the shadow of the Sun that it’s nice for him to get a little attention of his own. I would say.

Jen: Okay, I’m going to bring us back on track to Venus trine Mars.

April: Yes, this is more of a Venus week.

Jen: Do tell us.

April: Well, Venus is in the latter part of Leo on that beautiful Sabian symbol that we talked about the Leo New Moon I believe.

Jen: It was the Leo New Moon, Episode39, which I’ll link in the show notes.

April: Yes. One of them which is: A rainbow.

Jen: It’s very lovely.

April: And that is making a trine to Mars, which of course is stumbling along retrograde in Aries. And it’s another really nice Sabian symbol “A Man Possessed of More Gifts Than He Can Hold.” Which I know we’ve also mentioned in a previous podcast.

Jen: Episode 21.

April: The Venus and Mars cycle does talk about the evolving dynamic between the desire nature, Venus, what we like, what we want, and Mars, which is about how we go about getting it. And choosing from the many things that we might desire, the one or two that are really most important to us that we would fight for, I think. So, this is a nice moment in that cycle where they’re kind of on the same page. They want the same things. They’re both in fiery signs. There’s a lot of enthusiasm and passion.

Jen: It’s kind of an easy flow.

April: Yes, they get along. They understand each other. We did have a couple of episodes, I think, that were very Libra-centric, really highlighted changes and adjustments that were going on in our personal relationships and all relationships. So I like seeing Venus – which is the relationship planet – finally having a nice aspect to Mars and saying, “Yes, there’s an opportunity to iron out what have been some disagreements or some difficult bumps in the road with people close to us.” I really like that.

And it’s a good time also for moving in a positive direction, even though Mars is retrograde. Maybe getting back to some artistic or creative projects that you might have let languish because that’s the energy of Venus in Leo, I think.

Jen: Is that also any of the energy of Aries because it’s a fire sign? Do you think?

April: I think so. I don’t think of Aries as a particularly artistic sign.

Jen: Okay.

April: It’s more about the functions that help us get that work done. If you have Venus with that, if you’re trying to do Venus kind of work, which can be very artistic or collaborations as well are ruled by Venus, then Mars is very helpful. And also might bring a little help your way to help achieve some of those things. Because of the Sabian symbol, “A Man Possessed of More Gifts Than He Can Hold” just speaks to me of finding someone to help you carry that load a little bit. And with Mars retrograde it’s going back, back to things that were not completely finished before, maybe reconnecting with friendships that have languished a bit during quarantine or something like that. I think if someone can’t make something good of this trine, they’re really just not trying, because this is so beautiful. It’s such a nice combination of planets and a beautiful aspect and some lovely Sabian symbols.

Jen: That’s a good point. And maybe just notice the gifts that you have, because I remember you saying at one point that trines are sometimes things that are already there, but we don’t notice them.

April: Exactly. Because it’s going so easy, that we don’t really pay attention in the same way that we do. It’s like: You can walk across your beautiful living room and not hardly notice it. But if you’re walking along you trip over cat toy, believe me, you’ll notice that. So it’s a trine versus a square there.

Jen: You know a thing or two about cat toys, don’t you?

April: Oh, my friend. I know from cat toys. I do.

Jen: That’s right.

April: Then we come to Saturn who is turning direct on September 28th, later that evening at 10:12 PM, on our familiar Sabian symbol of 26 Capricorn, “A Water Sprite.”

Jen: We’ve been seeing that symbol so often lately.

April: We have and it is, as I was pointing out to you on the show sheet that I came within three minutes of arc of having a second Saturn return because my Saturn’s at 25.17 of Capricorn. And this station happens at 25.20.

Jen: So that Saturn came really, really close to your natal Saturn, the Saturn that is in your birth chart?

April: Right.

Jen: Well, I was curious if you noticed anything reminiscent from your recent Saturn return, which I remember was in early February?

April: Oh, good thinking. See, I was so proud of just having the one exact pass of the Saturn return. Because with my first Saturn return, I got it three times. And this time, I thought, “Oh, I only have it one time. This is really great.” I got past it. Things were good. And then I realized in talking to somebody born the same day as me, and she said, “Oh, what do you think is going to happen when we have the second Saturn return?” I said, “Well, we don’t.” Because I had run this whole very precise list. And it didn’t show up, because it only got super close.

Jen: I see.

April: It’s like the car runs over you and then it backs up when it gets within like a quarter of an inch of running over you again.

Jen: What an image! Wow!

April: It’s Saturn, you know? It actually has not been bad. This Saturn return hasn’t been bad. But what it’s been really is about confronting aging, which is something realistic that you have to come to grips with at the age of 58. Now I am 59. And feeling some gratitude for my general overall pretty good health at this time. But I think that also is about coming to terms with what you have achieved and what you haven’t. And coming and revamping your goals for the third chapter of your life so that it is realistic and satisfying. So yes, I’m probably not going to be the world’s most well-known anything or wealthiest anything, probably, and at the age of 58 [sic], I have to go, “Okay, that’s all right. Look at what I have done.”

Jen: And you know, my friend… Right now, I would like to point out that your book, “The Essential Guide to Practical Astrology” was on Oprah Winfrey’s list of the 15 best astrology books.

April: And I’m really proud of that. I’m proud of everything I’ve done in my career.

Jen: Of course.

April: But the only reason I’ve accomplished anything in my career is because I’ve been very ambitious and I’ve worked really hard. So at the second Saturn return, what you have to do is to take a fresh look at the parameters of your life and say, “This is possible still. These things may not be possible, and that’s okay. “And your criteria for judging your success becomes quite altered at the second Saturn return. This is a good moment actually to mention a podcast that I was just interviewed for.

Jen: Please do. Go ahead.

April: The podcast is called “The Sixty Project.”

Jen: And what’s it about?

April: It’s a series of interviews by filmmaker and blogger, Tracy Thomas. I think she’s a blogger, I know she is podcaster. She’s interviewed a series of people about turning 60 and what that experience has been like.

Jen: And you’re not quite there, but you’re close.

April: I’m close. And what we were really talking about was the second Saturn return, which happens just before you turn 60. And how knowing about that can help you prepare psychologically and position yourself in a practical way for the most success and satisfaction, especially in your career as you’re moving into the last, probably the last third of your life.

Jen: Interesting. So, people might find that…?

April: Yea. Wherever you found this podcast, you can probably find it, just Google “The Sixty project.”

Jen: And is it 60 of the number or is the number 60 spelled out?

April: It’s spelled out.

Jen: Okay.

April: And we’ll also link it in the show notes, as we like to say.

Jen: Of course, we will. If there’s a phrase we like, April, it’s…

: “We’ll link in the show notes.”

April: I wonder if we should tell some people how to find the show notes? Does anybody at this point… do you think not know how to find the show notes?

Jen: I think some people don’t know. And that’s actually a really good point. So go ahead and let folks know where they can find the show notes.

April: Okay. So wherever you are looking at this podcast, if you’re on your phone, or wherever you are, if you look at the actual summary for the episode, if you just keep scrolling down, you will see our show notes. If you can’t find them there, depending on what platform you’re using, or device you’re using, just go to And we have a post for each of our episodes, and it has the full show notes, a link to the transcript, the whole kit and caboodle. So that’s possibly the easiest way to do it.

Jen: That was a really good thing to add.

April: Thank you. I feel pretty proud of it myself.

April: Anyway, Saturn’s turning direct. And it’s not just about me almost having another Saturn return.

Jen: Alright. We were talking about Saturn, right?

April: Yes. We’re going back to Saturn, which went retrograde on May 20, around the time lots of stuff was happening. I know we had Venus, I think, was turning retrograde and there was a mess of stuff happening in mid-May. So that’s when Saturn went retrograde. Now it’s turning direct, as usual, we have a day or two as it’s stationing and turning direct where the spirit of Saturn is very strong and walking among us. Saturn is in Capricorn, it’s on that lovely symbol of “a water sprite,” which we’ve said before brings us back to the idea of authenticity and really being yourself. The water sprite is in tune with nature; a sprite is this naked little figure and dancing in the spray from the water and all of that. So just thinking the part of you that is the most authentically you. And if there is a possibility sometime around the 28th or 29th to get out in nature a little bit. I think that’s a really nice way to honor this station and this Sabian symbol.

Jen: And I think of it as kind of a playful symbol too. Do you think that’s true?

April: I think so too. Which is very odd for Saturn in Capricorn in any way.

Jen: Exactly. That’s what I was thinking.

April: Yes, it’s frolicking a little. Saturn will be frolicking.

Jen: How does Saturn in Capricorn frolic, I wonder?

April: Well, I I have frolicked. I have that in my birth chart.

Jen: And how do you frolic?

April: I’m not sure.

Jen: You work.

April: I work. Yes, I frolic through my work, I suppose. I have a kitten now. He does my frolicking for me. Oh, there we are. So, in any event, Saturn is always about the boundaries that we set for our life and the ambitions that we have for things that we want to accomplish. Always when Saturn is either stationing to go retrograde or direct, it’s a good time to revisit those things. You might find issues about boundaries coming up with people and having to get a little clearer about that. That’s something that comes up with Saturn.

Jen: Okay. And the very next day, Mars is going to square Saturn for the second time in a series of three on September 29th at 02:49 PM Pacific Time. What degree will that be happening at?

April: That happens at 25° and 20 minutes of Aries and Capricorn.

Jen: Okay.

April: And Aries of course is retrograde. So, that little water sprite better really enjoy himself on the 28th because that Mars is not going to be very delightful if the last time showed us anything. This is the second in three Mars Saturn squares. And the first was on August 24th. And it sucked.

Jen: That was a hard day. I remember.

April: Yes. We both had a hard day. And I was talking to some other people at the time that had a pretty tough time. When you have an aspect like this forming between two planets, and you have it three times – because one of the planets is retrograde – the first pass… the first exact aspect between them… I always find it the hardest, because it’s introducing a new issue, a new subject that needs to be in the case of a square resolved between the two planets.

Jen: It’s the preview.

April: It’s the preview of coming attractions. And so, this one is the second one and then the third one will be on January 13th 2021.

Jen: So the second one is the realization of “Okay, we had the preview at the end of August and now at the end of September, we have the second pass.” And then in January we’ll have that third square. And we’ll hopefully be able to wave it out the door lovingly.

April: Lovingly and Godspeed, Mars/Saturn.

Jen: Exactly.

April: I think what was hard about that one from my own experience – I think it was related to the day you had as well, and some other people I’ve talked to – is it really was about boundaries-being-tested issue.

Jen: Yes.

April: For me it was in my professional life, a couple of things came up where I had to reassert some boundaries around some professional things.

Jen: And Saturn’s all about boundaries.

April: Yes. It’s kind of its job.

Jen: Yes.

April: And Mars represents that element of somebody pushing it, or there being some threat to it. Probably not as intense this second time because the planets ever since then have been bracing. They’ve been working through these things bit by bit, and now it’s just it come to a head again. And by the time we get to the one on January 13th, I suspect we’ll be in good shape with it. And there’ll be one last test, but we’ll pass it with flying colors.

Jen: And the one in January both planets will be in different signs, then?

April: They’ll be in Aquarius and… Taurus?

Jen: Mars is in Taurus. Exactly.

April: Okay, well, Mars and Saturn is a really powerful combination. Jen and I both have that combination in our birth charts but the aspect is trine. And what that means is we are unstoppable work machines, basically. We share this in common. We keep trying to keep each other accountable to keep us from killing ourselves with work. We’re not getting anywhere with that. But Mars square Saturn is hard because you have the will to work, but it doesn’t go smoothly. And you have to really struggle to get there.

Jen: But the Sabian symbols are nice.

April: The Sabian symbols are pretty good. Yes. Again it’s “A Man Possessed of More Gifts Than He Can Hold” and “A Water Sprite. “It does seem easier than the last one. So what this seems to refer to because of the Sabian symbol for Mars, “A Man possessed of More Gifts Than He Can Hold,” again that goes back to the idea of just having too much. Too much work. Too many irons in the fire.

Jen: Our cup overflows?

April: Right. And Saturn saying, “It’s okay. You have to focus on what’s the most important. You can’t do everything.” Mars says “Watch me.” And Saturn goes, “No, It’s not a negotiation. I’m telling you: that you have finite resources like time and physical energy that have to be respected and getting the things done that you want to do. “But it’s frustrating. It is a frustrating aspect. And it’s hard to move forward. And it’s hard to feel that you’re making progress. But I always trust in Saturn when it comes to delays. If he says “Take a little time off. Don’t move so fast.” I try to listen to him because he’s always right.

Jen: He’s the school principal looking out for your best interest.

April: Yes.

Jen: The loving school principal.

April: The benign authority figure.

Jen: There we go.

April: Who wants what’s best for us.

Jen: Yes.

April: Well, Jen, do you know what time it is?

Jen: I do know what time it is…

April: Moonwatch…

Jen: Moonwatch….

April: Oh, you are warbling. People can’t see, but you were literally swaying as you did that. Play it, Jen!

April: Moonwatch. Well, this week we have, as I said a Harvest Full Moon at 9° and eight minutes of Aries.

Jen: Yes

April: Yes, indeed. On October 1st, a very significant day, which we’ll talk more about in a moment, at 02:05 PM Pacific Time. We know it’s a harvest Moon so we know that it’s will be big and lovely and full in the East at the time of Sunset. And the Sabian symbol for the Moon is 10° Aries “A Man Teaching New Forms For Old Symbols. “Love that one.

Jen: Yes.

April: And the Sun is on 10° Libra, “A Canoe Approaching Safety Through Dangerous Rapids.”

Jen: I kind of like that too, actually.

April: Yes. Whatever Mars square Saturn throws at us on the 29th, we’re going to be approaching safety through dangerous rapids by the Full Moon.

Jen: Yay for that.

April: That’s how I’m choosing to think of it. This is related, of course, to the New Moon way back on March 24th, which was at 4° of Aries. That was the call. This is the response. The call then was to set seeds of intention around personal identity, around new adventures and pioneering new trails. We’re now at the Full Moon. We’re halfway through the year relative to that. And it’s time to take a look at how we’re doing with that. Of course, it’s been tough time since March 24th. We were given a pretty interesting assignment by a New Moon in Aries, given the kinds of new trails that we had to learn to blaze had to do with living in weird times with the pandemic and the shutdown.

Jen: It sure has.

April: We’re now halfway through that. And I think we’re all getting the knack for it a little bit. I mean, certainly it’s easier than it was in the beginning.

Jen: We know what to expect, at least.

April: Yes. And we know how to get our groceries. And we know, we have enough toilet paper at this point. Things are easier.

Jen: Right.

April: Aries is very much a sign that’s about responding to emergency situations. And we were very much in that survival mode. Nobody knew quite how bad the virus was going to be, and then all of the impact on our daily lives. So it was a lot to respond to.

Jen: Yes. And that’s interesting to think about related to the Sabian symbols. Because to me, both of them relate to releasing what’s in the past and moving forward in new ways with new horizons. And that’s exactly what we’ve been doing.

April: Yes. We’re learning how to do it differently. A man teaching new forms for old symbols. And we’re getting closer to the holiday season.

Jen: We are.

April: In the United States and Canada we will have Thanksgiving. I think, in fact, Canada has Thanksgiving in October, I think. So we’re coming up on that, which is always a little bit of an interesting holiday here in the US, especially in an election year, because people will get together and maybe have some difficult conversations about things. But yes, we’re going to have to learn to do that differently. Well, will have smaller gatherings, or what will we do?

Jen: Yes.

April: I mean, normally, I look at that symbol and I like it, because it just speaks to me about – from an academic point of view – somebody who has a really innovative approach. And in astrology, especially, it’s all about symbols. So I really like to see it in the chart of somebody who’s doing astrology or any kind of thing where they’re going deep into symbols and writing or speaking about them. I see them as auspicious. I’m doing a lot of work right now on a workshop and a lecture that I have coming up. So it’s nice to have this particular symbol on my side to try to take an innovative approach. But the canoe is approaching safety through dangerous rapids. And I think there is the sense hopefully, around this Full Moon, I’ve kind of feeling like it’s getting a little easier, you know?

Jen: Yes.

April: That is what we will hope. This is the Full Moon in a lunar phase family that began back on April 5th, 2019. And we have spoken of course, in recent episodes about these lunar phase families.

Jen: Very interesting. Two and a half year cycles.

April: Right. The first quarter was January 2nd 2020, at 12°Aries. And now we are at the Full Moon in that phase family. So as well as looking back to where we have gotten to since March 24 of this year, when we had a New Moon in Aries, let’s look back to April of 2019. Which seems like a lifetime ago.

Jen: It sure does.

April: Honestly.

Jen: Yes.

April: When this phase family began. And look to the progress that we have made. That’s a two-and-a-half-year cycle that began then, and we’re halfway through it now, so we can say, “How am I doing with going after the things that are important to me?”

Jen: And we talk quite a bit about the Aries and Libra polarity in our special Equinox episode. So April, will you let people know how they can get their hands on that special Equinox episode?

April: Yes. They just need to pony up five bucks, basically. Well, during our Podathon, we offered this as a special incentive for our donors who donated $5 or more for the podcast. And then we thought, “Well, let’s make that available to more people. “So anybody who wants to go to, kick in five bucks or more to support the podcast, and we’ll make sure you get the special episodes. So we just did one for the Libra Equinox, but you can still get it. That came out last week. And of course, the next one that we have will be in the end of December for the solstice. And they’re kind of fun and new and different. So go ahead and kick that in. We’ll make sure we get those episodes to you.

Jen: And tons of info in those episodes. So I think you’ll enjoy them.

April: Mucho.

Jen: Okay.

April: Well, there’s something else special that’s happening on October 1st.

Jen: Yes?

April: Jen…

Jen: Do you have something to say?

April: Jen, you’re having a solar return!

Jen: I’m having a solar return.

April: Yes. Your birthday is actually on the first but your solar return is the day before because the Sun cycle is not exactly the same as 365 calendar days. Right?

Jen: Yes. It’s not quite that convenient, for those of us that use this calendar.

April: Right. So your solar return, the moment when the Sun returns to the exact degree and minute of longitude that it was at your birth happens within a day up to maybe two, depending on leap-year stuff of your birthday.

So we call this your personal New Year chart, because this begins your solar year. And looking at the solar return chart, it can tell us a lot about the next 12 months for you, really. I did want to mention to people because we’ve talked about solar returns before. And I know some of you have ordered the solar return report at my website by Mary Shea which is a wonderful report. But you really need to have a very precise birth time.

Jen: That is important to mention.

April: It is. Because when I get birth times from people that are right on the hour or right on the half hour, 12 o’clock, I always have to think “That sounds a little bit like you’re rounding, or you don’t have the exact time from a document.” If somebody tells you ‘Oh it’s around 7 o’clock or whatever’…  because of the nature of this chart, it’s very time sensitive. So I would really encourage people just look it up. There are lots of ways to find your exact birth time. Sometimes it’s available through the hospital where you were born, there are always county records that you can get. Also look at things like family records, baby books, letters. Some people record these things in a family Bible. So we exhaust all efforts to find the very best birth time. With a lot of astrology work, we can kind of work with an approximate time, but with this particular chart, make sure you really have a good birth time.

Jen: Yes. And it’s because the ascendant – which is the front door basically to the whole chart – changes every two or three minutes.

April: Every four minutes. Yes.

Jen: Because the degree changes. So even twins have different charts. I mean, they’re quite similar. But even people that are born minutes apart, their charts can look a little different.

April: Yes. Let’s talk about your solar return chart.

Jen: Okay, April. What do you see?

April: Well, Jen gets to be a superstar this year, because the solar return Sun is in the 10th house of her chart.

Jen: And that means what?

April: Well, what we look at in the solar return chart is the house placement of the Sun, because it’s always going to be in the same sign. And that’s the whole point. So we look at the house that it falls in and the aspects it’s making to other planets. And that tells us the emphasis for the year, as well as the house that has Leo on the cusp or in the house, because the Sun is the ruler of Leo.

Jen: Yes.

April: The Sun is having a lot of fun in this chart. It’s in the 10th house. So it’s like kind of being a Capricorn for the year a little bit. A lot of emphasis on goal setting, on career aspirations, on being visible in the community with the Sun in the 10th house. It’s a really powerful placement for the solar return Sun. And if there’s anything that you’ve been building towards professionally, you should see a lot of good energy around that this year.

Jen: Okay. I’ve got this little podcast I’ve been working on…

April: Yes. Maybe you’ll get somewhere with it this year. Who knows? The Sun is also the ruler of Venus in the chart because Venus is in Leo, in the ninth house. And it rules the ninth house because Leo is on the ninth house cusp. So that brings publishing, education as well, travel in a normal year to the fore in this year.

What else do we have? The Sun is sextile the ascendant, which means that it will be a comfortable year for that Sun to really express itself. Because the ascendant as you said, it’s the front door of the chart and it describes how you are going to interact with your environment for the year. You will interact with it in a joyful Sagittarian way.

Jen: I could use a little of that.

April: “Sagittarius rising, everything else falling down.” So you got to be a little careful.

April: But as one who possesses this, yes, in my own birth chart… It’s a really fun ascendant to have. It makes you kind of cheerful and not take things too seriously, at least on the outside. And the Sun is making a beautiful sextile aspect to that. So not only are you in a position to realize some beloved ambitions but also they come to you pretty easily. Lots of opportunities come your way. Because it’s the sextile to the ascendant. Doesn’t that sound nice?

Jen: It does sound nice, and I enjoy how you’re putting all the fun stuff first.

April: Well, I mean, there are difficulties in every chart. What were you looking at that was bothering you? Was it Mars?

Jen: Nothing’s bothering me. Let me just say that, because I don’t believe there are bad aspects… even though Mars square Saturn is hard. Let’s be honest.

April: It is hard…

Jen: Yes. I also know Saturn rewards hard work and I’m good at hard work. So hey, you know?

April: Well, you had proven that through our Podathon adventure. You have been working super super hard. And some people feel that we start to experience the new solar return chart a month sometimes up to 90 days in advance of it becoming exact.

So we’re already seeing that Mars/Saturn, for you. You’ve been working hard, but that’s like building muscle. If we do Mars square Saturn, right, we’re building muscle and can get even more things done.

Jen: Okay.

April: Mercury is opposed Uranus in the chart, in the houses of creativity and audience. Mercury is in the 11th house of audiences. And Uranus is in the fifth. So I think that speaks well of whatever communicative things you were doing, finding a good audience.

Jen: I like that.

April: And what else? You have a late degree Moon in Pisces in this chart close to the IC and conjunct Neptune. And of course, you’re having appliance problems, you said, so that sounds pretty good from Moon/Neptune on the IC, sometimes water problems in a year with Pisces on the fourth house cusp, especially with the Moon and Neptune there. So just keeping an eye out for addressing any – well, you had some plumbing stuff…

Jen: I could run down the list, my friend. I sure could. In the last year with Neptune in my fourth…

April: Right. So all of those things are happening. A beautiful Venus/Mars trine and a North Node in the seventh house, we would say your relationships and love life should be very harmonious and moving in a lovely direction.

Jen: Okay.

April: Well, my friend, how do you feel about your solar return? Are you excited?

Jen: Yes. Thanks for giving me a quick reading there, my friend. I appreciate that.

April: Well, you’re welcome. And it’s a way of sharing also with our listeners, just a quick way of looking at a solar return chart and the kinds of things that might tell you about the year ahead. It doesn’t negate anything you’re going to see in other systems like transits, or progressions, or profections, or anything that people are dealing with. But what it does is give kind of a snapshot of the year ahead to me. You’ll see the same things. I guarantee right now, if we looked at your transits and progressions, we would have a lot of the same kinds of themes that we would be exploring. This is just a quick way to look at it.

Jen: Yes, I’ve noticed that often when you’re looking at astrology charts, themes keep coming back. They’re repeated in different ways throughout the chart.

April: Yes.

Jen: And April, what are profections? Can you explain that for folks?

April: Yes. Well, briefly, profections are a traditional technique and they equate each year of life to a house in the horoscope. It’s a 12-year cycle, one year for each house, and then it starts over.

Jen: And you start with your ascendant?

April: You start with your ascendant, yes. So at the age of 12, then you’ll have a first house profection year, at 24, you’ll have the next one, and so forth.

You would look at the sign that is on the house cusp, and then its ruling planet. And that gives you more information about the year ahead with your profections.

Well, we’ll put a link in the show notes to something good on profections. I know my colleague Lisa Shim has written about them and a couple of other people. So, we’ll give you some links on them.

Jen: Sounds good. Thank you. Okay, so, moving right along.

April: Venus…

Jen: Oh, Venus…

April: Venus is entering Virgo this week, Jen.

Jen: Yes.

April: On October 2nd, at 01:48 PM Pacific Time and it will be in that esteemed sign through October 27th.

Jen: Venus in Virgo means what? You said you were excited about this.

April: I actually love Venus in Virgo. I love anything in Virgo. I’m a big fan of their work. Venus has been in Leo since September 6th. And Venus gets to play in Leo. And really just kind of wear very bright colors and have a really good time. Venus just appreciates different things in Virgo than it does in Leo. In Leo, it’s about beautiful bright colors and lavish flowers and lots of delicious foods and all that. Virgo really love simplicity and finds great beauty in it. You mentioned in one of our episodes, it might have been our Equinox episode. “The minimalists.”

Jen: Yes, I did.

April: A couple of guys that have done a book and a website and a podcast, it’s actually really interesting to listen to. And there’s such beauty to that idea of minimalism, of taking away what’s extraneous from your life, especially when it comes to physical possessions so that you have more space. And there’s a calm to it. And interestingly, calm is always a word that I associate with Virgo, even though a lot of the time, they’re a little jangly, because they do see the imperfections in things there. They want to do things so well, that it gets them wound up and really nervous making. But Venus in Virgo, ideally, is that part of us that edits our lives in such a way that we’re left with something that is beautiful, that suits us, that is useful. So I think this is a great month while Venus is in Virgo, which is through October 27th to do some of that curating work.

And I know a lot of people during the pandemic have been decluttering getting rid of a lot of things. But there’s always room to get a little more scale down and down to the essentials of what you love and what’s really beautiful. And again, things that are useful, not just pretty. That’s why Venus in Virgo likes. Venus is considered to be in her fall in Virgo, because she’s exalted in Pisces. So that leads us to think, “Oh, you know, maybe Venus doesn’t do so well in Virgo.” Well, she doesn’t do stereotypically Venus things terribly well. When I think of Venus, I think “She likes to shop.” And Venus in Virgo makes that difficult because Virgo is going “We have enough already, stop shopping.” But what Venus in Virgo would then shop at The Container Store. Or IKEA and get all these beautiful little boxes to put things in so they look all pretty and that kind of thing.”

Jen: She’s going to organize a little.

April: She organizes, God love her. Send her to my house. We’re in desperate need of her here.

And then finally this week, we have Pluto turning direct – as well as Saturn – on October 4th, at 06:30 AM, 22° and 29 minutes of Capricorn.

Jen: And Pluto’s turning direct at the same point that Saturn and Pluto came together back in January. That sensitive point.

April: Yes. As if we needed reminder, Pluto. We see you, Pluto! We hear you.

Jen: That’s funny.

April: It turned retrograde on April 25th, and he’s stirring from his long nap and waking up and moving forward. We hear his thundering hooves in the background, as he’s coming our way. So think of it this way. Think of Pluto is a big bear that’s been hibernating. And now he’s waking up. So what is a bear do when it wakes up from hibernation? It probably looks for food. This is a hungry Pluto. He’s having his last moment with his friends Jupiter and Saturn because soon they will be moving on into Aquarius and leaving him behind. And I think Pluto has been happy to have a little company down there in the underworld for the last year or two. He is going to make the most of these last couple of months with Jupiter and Saturn. Now make of that what you will. It sounds slightly ominous given the way the year has gone.

Jen: Right.

April: But, we have had a slight intermission from Pluto. I know it hasn’t seemed like it between fires and hurricanes and everything else that’s going on. But that hiatus, that little hibernation is over. And now Pluto is moving on.

Jen: So do you think, April, because he is stopped on the same point from January… that it’s just reminiscent of what was going on then?

April: I think so. He’s saying “I know it looks like I haven’t really gotten anywhere since January. But just wait and see.”

Jen: Oh, wow.

April: Because while he has been hibernating, Jupiter and Saturn have still been doing their thing and kind of bringing stuff into his lair. And he can turn around and do interesting things with that. I think.

We’ll see. I mean, Pluto is always a little bit of a challenging symbol and energy. He just tends to be a destructive force of saying, “You think Venus and Virgo wants you to pare it down to the essentials. Just wait and see what Pluto can do.” Because Pluto really says “What is the most important? And how can you empower yourself and the things that you want to see happen in the world and to see it actually happen?” So it’s an interesting Pluto to have going pretty…It’s just a month out from the election here in the United States.

Jen: Yes.

April: And that will be part of that story.

Jen: It’ll be an interesting month…

April: Won’t it just my friend? Won’t it just?

Jen: And if folks want to hear more about the Saturn and Pluto conjunction from January, you can go back and listen to Episodes Number Six, Seven and Eight. And should we mention to folks that we slightly revised some of the names of our earlier episodes, April?

April: Yes, we did. Because when we started out, I was just trying to be too clever and forgot to mention actual astrological things in the titles. That just seems so obvious. So we have revised those slightly; the first one through six other than episode five. Yes. They have slightly different names than they did before.

Jen: We tried to make clearer what the focus is of the episode.

April: Yes. Well, that’s everything on the show sheet. Do you believe that we have done it?

Jen: We’re coming up on 50!

April: 50. We’re going to be 50!

Jen: Next week, we’ll be 50!

April: Oh, my gosh. We’re old. We’re feeling it. Well, thanks to all of you for listening to The Big Sky Astrology Podcast. If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you get them. Rate and review our show and we hope you’ll help us spread the word by telling a friend about it. You can read show notes as we said before and full transcripts of each episode and leave your comments at our website,

Jen: And we’re so grateful to everyone who showed support during our recent Podathon. So of course, each week we’ll be thanking one of you by name. And April, who do we have this week?

April: This week, we have Tim Tormey!

Jen: Yay, Tim!

April: Tim happens to be one of my oldest friends. We went to Catholic grade school together.


April: I was 12and he was nine. It was scandalous because I was an older woman. And we became friends around music. He’s one of my oldest friends, dear to me to this day, and one of Jen’s newer Facebook friends as well.

Jen: Tim and I are Facebook friends. Yes.

April: You are connecting.

Jen: Yes.

April: So Tim, I don’t think, has ever actually listened to the podcast, so I’ll have to make him listen to this episode. Tim, we really appreciate you and we thank you so much for supporting our Podathon.

Jen: We really do appreciate you, Tim, thank you so much. Now, if you didn’t get a chance to support us during our Podathon, you can always make a donation at our website, And if you donate $5 or more, we’ll invite you to our special episodes for the Equinoxes and Solstices, and you can still receive our special episode on the September Equinox that we released last week.

April: Well, that’s it for us this week. Join us again, bright and early next Monday. And Until then, keep your feet on the ground…

Jen: …and your eyes on the stars.

Thank you for listening. To learn more about April Elliott Kent, please check out her website,, where you can sign up for her newsletter, read her thought-provoking weekly essays, purchase her books, sign up for a personal astrology reading, and more.

That’s all for today. If you like what you’re listening to, please take a moment to rate and review this podcast and hit subscribe to stay current with new episodes.

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© 2020 by April Elliott Kent and Jennifer Braun

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